1 Dec 2005

by James

22 Comments »

Religion

Evangelism is a dangerous game

I was beside myself this morning as I dropped the kids off at my mother-in-laws house. During a commercial break from the morning news a local pastor (the very same one that was recently punched in the face during a service) came on, and went on a rant about the evils of believing in evolution. He said something along the lines of;

“During your life, you may have been taught that everything on our planet has evolved from something. Well I am here to tell you, that is a hoax and a lie. God created the earth, and everything on it. Please come to my church and learn of God’s love.”

He then went on to pitch some book he wanted everyone to read; written about the “lie” we call evolution.

I’m sorry, no… actually I’m not… I am not an atheist, I am not some sort of heathen, but I do NOT force my religion on anyone, EVER. I take great offense at these people, who recently must have received some sort of green light from God to go on the march and stamp out everything they disagree with. Up until this last Presidential election, I rarely heard much from the evangelists, but it seems that with the coming of 2005, they have come out of the woodwork.

I will defend anyone’s right to worship anything or anyone they wish to the day I die, but the second you basically attack me with YOUR beliefs, I WILL fight back, even if I agree with some of what you say. That goes for the people that feel they need to force their Atheism on others as well.

We claim that we are at war against Radical Islam, yet we have the same ideological people here in our own country, we just give them a pass because they’re not Islamic. The Radical Islamic people we are up against feel not only that their religion is THE religion; they feel that it is their duty to convert the world to that religion. I have met, and know people that feel this very same way about Christianity… why should they get a pass?

Religion is a VERY dangerous game, and while I do have religious beliefs, the very concept of a higher power, may one day wipe us from the pages of history.

22 Comments

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  • TheBowerbird
    1 Dec, 2005

    I agree whole heartedly. I also believe that religion causes more harm than good.

  • Libertarian Jason
    2 Dec, 2005

    To play a little Devil’s Advocate here… (pun?)

    How exactly is this guy “forcing” his religion on you?

    Sure, he’s passionate. Sure, he’s using over-the-top rhetoric. And sure, he’s pandering to a fringe element, and probably reinforcing many bad sterotypes in the process.

    But he making an appeal to _persuade_ you to do something. He’s _asking_ you to come to his church. He’s _asking_ you to buy his book. He’s purchased radio time with his own money (presumably, unless he’s part of Bush’s faith-based welfare program) in order to reach out to the community at large with an advertisement of something he thinks will benefit you to have.

    You are free to ignore him, as you please, without fear of retribution.

    How is that using “force”?

    There is a different between seeking voluntary cooperation and using coercive force.

  • Richard
    2 Dec, 2005

    Thanks for sharing. It needs to be said.

  • James
    2 Dec, 2005

    But he making an appeal to _persuade_ you to do something. He’s _asking_ you to come to his church. He’s _asking_ you to buy his book. He’s purchased radio time with his own money (presumably, unless he’s part of Bush’s faith-based welfare program) in order to reach out to the community at large with an advertisement of something he thinks will benefit you to have.

    I would not care in the least if his message was “god created the earth, blah blah blah” but to come on TV, radio etc and declare that my beliefs are invalid, and wrong is… well wrong.

    I could care less who he’s pandering to, I can ignore “please come to my church”, but when someone calls me a liar, and tells me my beliefs are wrong, “them’s fightin words”.

  • Libertarian Jason
    2 Dec, 2005

    I would not care in the least if his message was “god created the earth, blah blah blah” but to come on TV, radio etc and declare that my beliefs are invalid, and wrong is… well wrong.

    Ok…Saying he’s wrong is one thing. Saying he’s “forcing” his religion on you is another.

  • James
    2 Dec, 2005

    Well, I find his demands that I live a lie and that I must be saved, as a forceful statement. True, I hold the power of the remote, but I still find his statements ridiculous.

    You like the devils advocate role don’t you? ;)

  • John
    2 Dec, 2005

    Sorry James but I have to say this. Aren’t you using your website to counter what the televangelist said in fact doing the same thing as he is? By that I mean exercising your right to free speech. Sorry man but I’m with Jason on this one. Televangelism – as annoying as it may be – is just as entitled to paid air time as a Swiftvet Ad, a Moveon.org ad, or a pizza hut commercial. Which I despise the products of latter 2.

    Comparing televangelism to radical Islam is a big stretch in my book. Although there may be threats of eternal damnation and such from them, they aren’t really in the habit of suicide bombings and beheadings as the radical islamists tend to be. And there may be violence on occasion, it’s not nearly as frequent. There is no literal “convert or die” threat from Christian evangelists as far as I can tell. Just words. Anyway we can’t agree on everything now can we?

  • James
    2 Dec, 2005

    Granted that we have yet to see any “Christian” bombings in this country or any others that I know of… the preachings and style of preaching vary VERY little from those of any other radical religious group.

    I do not force my religion on anyone, here or in real life. I take GREAT offense when anyone has the testicular fortitude to look anyone else in the face and spew forth their religious rhetoric, for the sole purpose to “prove someone wrong”. I could care less if you ‘preach to the choir’ but when you stand up to me and declare “Your beliefs are WRONG”, expect me to fight back.

    I did not say he did not have the right to do so, and I even provided an example of how he could have gone about it in a less confrontational manner.

    I point you to a blog I have run across recently in my travels on the “Interweb” as a PRIME example of this “Christian” evangelism that is just as dangerous as Islamic, or any other religious zealotry.

    The Machinery of Death

  • DoctorLife
    2 Dec, 2005

    Accusations of racism; comparisons to terrorists – what, sir, makes you think that I am not going to pursue this legally? I am shocked and appalled that you would attempt to quell the essence of freedom of speech by tainting my name with slanderous rhetoric.

    You should bear in mind that I am a pure pacifist. Just becuase you disagree with me does NOT give you the right to violate laws. I will be in touch.

  • James
    2 Dec, 2005

    I have not violated any laws and I invite you to please point out which laws you may THINK I have violated.

    You may claim to be a pacifist, but anyone that advocates the segregation of a “class” of citizens, or declares that women not be afforded equal rights under US law, that people who partake in “interfaith” marriage are sinners, and declares that anyone that disagrees with him “thinks incorrectly”, is no where NEAR as ‘docile’ and ‘embracing’ as you claim to be.

    …and for the record, I never ONCE called YOU a terrorist.

  • James
    2 Dec, 2005

    I equate religion along the same lines as food, moderation. If you eat too much food, you get fat, which is bad for you. People that saturate themselves in things like religion, allowing it to take complete control over their every move, thought, and feeling… tend to overreact and are often deathly afraid of things they do not understand.

    I have had several friends that saturated their lives in religious dogma to the point of nervous breakdowns. Too much of one thing is not good for body or soul.

  • sven
    2 Dec, 2005

    Telling someone that what they’ve been told is a lie is, imo, forcing. Christians live in a fairy tale world so usually it’s best to ignore them or ask what color the unicorns are in their reality.

  • John
    2 Dec, 2005

    Sven,

    So does this apply too to the Atheists who tell Christians that they are wrong? Or how about in just common conversation if 2 people disagree on any issue (it need not be about religion) and one says the other is wrong does this apply hear as well? I mean, I believe that taxes hurt the economy. So any liberal who says I’m wrong shouldn’t be telling me that right? I mean, I could get offended.

    What I’m hearing here guys is that you t think it’s wrong to tell other people they’re wrong. Which is doing exactly what you’re accusing them of in the first place.

    James,

    You are certainly entitled to be offended James. A commercial on TV I would argue is not forcing anything down your throat. You CAN change the channel. I know you already said that but it bears repeating. If it were being “forced” you would never have had the option of changing the channel.

    Now I will concede that there are quite possibly(probably) certain dangers from the extreme Christian fundamentalists but you continue, throughout this thread, to lump Christian “evangelism” as a whole into this group while taking great care to say “Islamic” extremists. One example I can say specifically is gunman outside abortion clinics. The opposite end could be Alcoholics Anonymous encouraging alcoholics to turn to God. I have no problem with evangelism whatsoever as long as it’s not a “convert or die” manner. And I too can’t stand Televangelists but Christianity itself preaches evangelism.

    Everyone is going to think that their Religion is better than others, otherwise they would go with one of the others. Just like our political beliefs. If I thought the liberals had a better grasp on things I’d be one. You cannot say logically – without invoking your feelings – that anything has been “forced” down your throat having viewed a commercial. Your heart and mind are your own and without physical violence or other coercion I don’t see it can be that way.

    Anyway I’m starting to ramble. Love the new look, think your site is tops and we’ll just have to chock this up to uncommon ground! And there’s not much there.

    Doctor Life,

    Shut up. I’m going to sue your for the strain caused to my eyes when they about rolled out of my head after reading that stupid comment you left. You’re an extremist retard with a warped sense of the legal system. See if you can get a libel suit against me for calling you a retard, retard. I’ll wait for your lawyer to contact me.

  • James
    2 Dec, 2005

    Agree to disagree :)

  • John
    2 Dec, 2005

    Basically yes. But I can’t seem to ever do that without long, drawn out repetition! Have a good weekend. I’m going to try to get the second half of my XMas lights up before it starts raining again! I just hope I have enough lights to annoy my neighbors. :-)

    Hey…why was retard ***’d out? That makes it look much worse than what I actually said!

  • Libertarian Jason
    2 Dec, 2005

    Well, I find his demands that I live a lie and that I must be saved, as a forceful statement. True, I hold the power of the remote, but I still find his statements ridiculous.

    I’m not arguing that point. In fact, I agree with it. My point was that you were using the word “force” too loosely. His actions constituted no act of force on his part. Obnoxious, over-the-top, in-your-face, badgering….yes,yes,yes, and yes.

    Force? No.

    You like the devils advocate role don’t you?

    Hey…I’m Libertarian. I was born to argue.

  • Libertarian Jason
    2 Dec, 2005

    Granted that we have yet to see any “Christian” bombings in this country or any others that I know of…

    Uh…what about that Eric Robert Rudolf guy…or whatever his name was…you know…the abortion clinic bomber?

    Then there was Tim McVeigh….

  • Libertarian Jason
    2 Dec, 2005

    Accusations of racism; comparisons to terrorists – what, sir, makes you think that I am not going to pursue this legally?….

    Is this clown for real?

    I hope there’s an inside joke that I’m missing here….

  • James
    2 Dec, 2005

    “Is this clown for real? I hope there’s an inside joke that I’m missing here….”

    Sadly he is, and no there’s no joke. :(

    As for McVeigh, was he a Christian? I never remember hearing anything about his religious beliefs… mainly that he was an emotionless prick.

  • Libertarian Jason
    3 Dec, 2005

    As for McVeigh, was he a Christian? I never remember hearing anything about his religious beliefs… mainly that he was an emotionless prick.

    I’m not sure… I’ve heard various sources say different things..some that he was, others that he wasn’t.. and none of them were all that credible, so I can’t say for sure. Of course, it would make sense that Christians would want to distance themselves from him and his actions…. But based on what I know…some of the groups he ran with, there were some strong elements of faith…. So maybe I should have ended that remark with a question mark…(Tim McVeigh?)

  • James
    7 Dec, 2005

    Used to be a Catholic Girl Suicide Bomber!

    Granted she WAS a convert to Islam (red flag!) but I guess didn’t matter much.

  • John
    7 Dec, 2005

    All I’m saying is that when I think suicide bomber…I don’t think Christians. But on the flip side, when I think abortion clinic shooting…I do think Christians. But the latter is a rare occurance by comparison. Why anyone would kill themselves for any reason is beyond me.