Student protests
Whittier area students from Pioneer, California and Whittier high schools walked out of classes to protest the proposed federal immigration bill March 27, 2006. The protestors put up the Mexican flag over the American flag flying upside down at Montebello High. (Leo Jarzomb/Staff photo)
I can’t seem to formulate a sentence that describes my distaste for the individuals involved, free speech is one thing, but when it progresses to manipulation or desecration of private or state property you’ve crossed the line.
CatHouse Chat has a very good reaction posted:
If I were in charge of these *gag* future voters *gag* they’d be studying the laws which have been broken, they’d be required to memorize proper flag ettiquette, they’d be visiting VA hospitals to meet the veterans they’ve just sh*t on, they’d be interviewing naturalized citizens who came here legally, and then they’d be writing a thirty page essay about the blessings and privileges of American Citizenship which I would require them to end with a sincere apology for their ignorance and stupidity.
The most disturbing part about these student protests was that they were not sanctioned by the schools in question and yet the students involved were not disciplined the least little bit for their truency. Had this been my school, anyone absent from classes that day, that did not have a valid proof of abcense, would face the punishment set aside for anyone caught skipping school.
Free speech has it’s consequences, yet these kids learned nothing about that particular life lesson.
[UPDATE]
Seems as though the adults around LA actually have a pair…
Los Angeles law enforcement officials plan to crack down on students who leave campus Wednesday by issuing truancy citations. LA School Superintendent Roy Romer says students leaving campus will be automatically considered truant.
Truant students could face discipline ranging from suspension to exclusion from certain school-sponsored functions. Students who are cited by law enforcement officers can face fines up to 200 dollars and 20 days of community service.
Although the REASON given for the citations “to keep the kids safe by getting them back in school” is pathetic.
Romeocat
29 Mar, 2006
Thanks so much for the TB and gracious compliment re: my, um, suggestion for some proper discipline for these truants! Of course, I am wondering if they have even one neuron holding their ears apart, in which case such remedial training might not be able to take effect [rolls eyes]…
– R’cat
CatHouseChat.com
Lisa
1 Apr, 2006
Flying the flag upside down is not desecration its a distress signal. If you haven’t been paying attention – America has big problems – so it’s appropriate. The saddest thing about the demonstrations — American’s don’t get that passionate about ANYTHING anymore. Hopefully they will learn something from the demonstrators and find a voice and take our country back from those who are running it now.
James
1 Apr, 2006
Lisa,
Maybe it us you who hasn’t been paying attention. In an post very similar to this one, I discussed the “distress” signal meaning in the upside down flag.
The flag should never be displayed with the union down, except as a signal of dire distress in instances of extreme danger to life or property.
Unfortunately the gang of Hispanic students that perpetrated the flag stunt were more than likely NOT that politically acute and didn’t see the inherent double meaning in their stunt.
These were public school students, to them turning the flag upside down was “the ultimate ‘dis”, not as a political jab at themselves.
ken
2 Apr, 2006
So then. Just out of curiosity, how do you feel about the confederate flag?
James
3 Apr, 2006
I don’t see the relevance of your question, but I’d have to say that I have nothing wrong with it or any other flag, as long as it is flown with respect to the US Code for proper use of the flag.
Also note that the Confederate Flag does not represent a sovereign nation and was never actually the ‘official’ flag of the Confederacy but rather used as a navy jack at sea.
ken
4 Apr, 2006
Well, if schools in California, as is asserted, are flying the Mexican flag and that’s objectionable then certainly the Confederate flag being displayed at many government buildings in the Southern states is objectionable too. Given that the Confederate Flag actually represents insurrection against the US Government, it’s by definition anti-American. Strange how you don’t hear about the American-hating righties in Alabama.
Maybe one day we can stop letting stupid things like flags and langauge divide us.
James
4 Apr, 2006
Find me visible evidence of the Confedrate Flag flying above an overturned US Flag. Find me visible evidence of the US Flag REPLACING the US Flag above a Government School.
In 1962, the 100th anniversary of the start of the Civil War, South Carolina decided to mark both the historical importance of the war and its state’s role in the conflict in a special way. The state government voted to fly the “Southern Cross,” the official flag of the Confederate states, below both the American flag and the state flag above its statehouse in Columbia.
Notice that, despite what some see as a negative symbol, the confederate flag was flown in accordance to the US Code.
You can fly a Pirate Flag over a school if you felt it necessary as long as it was flown BELOW the US and State Flags.
Also a good thing to note is that the vast majority of those southern states that flew the Confederate Flag faced legal reform in the way of banning it’s use by State bodies.
ken
4 Apr, 2006
Where did I condone flying the Mexican flag over and overturned US Flag?
The University of Mississippi flies the Confederate Flag in replacement of the American Flag. In Texas you would regularly see Texas flags being flown over, or at least on par with, American flags.
And what do you hear from the right? Nothing. Zip. But, when a library declines to go along with the crazy nationalism and fly a flag, the American Right has a field day, along with vandalizing the library. (Maybe if the library flew a Confederate Flag, it would be ok?)
So there you have it. If you fly a flag of active insurrection, you’re respecting your heritage or whatever. If you fly the flag of your homeland, you’re an “illegal” so what good are you. If you don’t bother fly a flag at all, a bunch of right-wingers vandalize your library.
James
4 Apr, 2006
While I disagree with the “discomforting nature of a US Flag display” comment, no law exists that says the library MUST display the flag. The problem with most political extremists “not just the right” is that they tend to react on PURE gut instinct and thus look like fools 90% of the time.
If you fly a flag of active insurrection, you’re respecting your heritage or whatever. If you fly the flag of your homeland, you’re an “illegal†so what good are you.
Ken you dissapoint me. The Confederate flag is NOT a flag of ACTIVE insurrection. Also no one EVER said that a Mexican individual waving the Flag of Mexico = Illegal.
In Texas you would regularly see Texas flags being flown over, or at least on par with, American flags.
If you’ll re-read that section of the US Code, you’ll see that the US and State flags CAN be flown at the same level as long as the US flag is on the pole to the right.
… and as I stated earlier, please provide VISIBLE evidence (i.e. PICTURES, not just your words) that can prove that, “The University of Mississippi flies the Confederate Flag in replacement of the American Flag.”
FYI, I’m fairly certain that Universities are not required by law to fly the US Flag, it’s generally thought of as common courtesy.
No one can MAKE you fly the US Flag… but if you do, there ARE rules to follow when doing it and my point was and STILL IS, the individuals involved in the incident in question were violating those rules.
James
4 Apr, 2006
BTW Ken… from your discription, draping a flag across a door is considered vandalism?
Your link does not work so that’s about all I can gather from your comment on the vandalism.
ken
5 Apr, 2006
Well I’m still waiting of a photo of a Mexican flag in front of California schools that was actually placed there by administrators, not misbehaving students. I couldn’t find much on the U of M issue, but it appears that the university banned the Confederate flag in the 90s — good for them.
As for active insurrection — you go from Alabama to Virginia, and you’ll find people for whom the civil war is still going on.
Here’s a retry for my link. And actually, there were 9 flags in a plaza between the library and another government building — that just wasn’t enough for the nationalists because there wasn’t a flag at the front entrance.
Meanwhile, Bush sells off the national forests.
James
6 Apr, 2006
“Well I’m still waiting of a photo of a Mexican flag in front of California schools that was actually placed there by administrators, not misbehaving students.”
The flag that was hoisted above school grounds by a school administrator took place in Houston, TX not California. The administrators name was Robert Pambello. He is the Principal @ Reagan High School. Google it.
it appears that the university banned the Confederate flag in the 90s — good for them
Yeah way to go Mississippi, ban your history! Like it or not, Missisippi flew under some flags that some people would like to forget, but if you forget your history, you’re doomed to repeat it.
that just wasn’t enough for the nationalists because there wasn’t a flag at the front entrance.
I tend to agree with you on this issue… there is NO law that requires a library to fly the US Flag or any other flag for that matter. Simply because someone chooses NOT to fly the flag is no reason to attack them. BUT, taping flags to a door is HARDLY vandalism.
Meanwhile, Bush sells off the national forests.
Sorry, I don’t do subject changes.
ken
6 Apr, 2006
Google reveals…
I think you’re over-reacting either way, but government buildings shouldn’t fly the flags of foreign countries. But I take no offense at their display at public demonstrations, in Italian restaurants (italian flags), or on students clothing
We could probably agree that if government institutions fly any flag, it should be their own.
And you should still look into the national forests issue — it’s far more important.
James
6 Apr, 2006
Reagan High School Principal Robert Pambello was ordered to remove a Mexican flag Wednesday morning that he had hoisted below the U.S. and Texas flags that typically fly in front of his school
Well I have read that exact statement, and I have also read statements that said he took down the US Flag and put up the Mexican one. It’s a waste of time splitting hairs on what he did or didn’t do, he was in violation of HISD protocol and should be disciplined accordingly.
But I take no offense at their display at public demonstrations, in Italian restaurants (italian flags), or on students clothing
Neither do I… read ANY of my posts on the issue… you’ll NEVER see me declare that private businesses can’t hang up a *insert country here* flag.
The only time I take offense during a rally is when the people demonstrating put their flag above mine, and light mine on fire. To me, that’s taking a big fat dump on the country. Burning the US Flag is a double edged sword issue, I support our right to do it, but I still reserve the right to get pissed off if you do.
Jeff Jones
15 Apr, 2006
Maybe the wetbacks at Pioneer and Whittier High Schools would like to be hung upside-down by their toes while we take pictures of them? Maggots — ought to be shot on-site for desecration like this. One question — Where were the local police while this bullshit was going on?
Saint Smitty
7 Jun, 2006
If that would have happened in Southern Indiana… A bunch of rednecks would have taken a day off work to go to that school and bust those kids asses. I’d have been one of them.
And if there had been any mexicans there, I think the riot squad should have been called and sent their illegal asses back to mexico…
Aaron
26 Jun, 2006
I’ve never been accused of being politically correct. I’ll try to get the gist of my thoughts across as simply and fairly as possible. I’m hispanic and was born in America. I’m proud to be in the US and I love this country very much. I love the US flag and have always rendered it the proper respect. Yes, I’m hispanic, but I was born in AMERICA and am an AMERICAN living in AMERICA (I hope this sets the tone well). If these… disrespectful, ignorant hispanics (notice I did not limit myself to only Mexicans from this particular incident) really love their home countries so much as to go on strike at work, walk out of classes and businesses, fly their home nation’s flag over the US flag in protest of the immigration issue (which, if they were legal immigrants the issue shouldn’t bother them anyway), etc., then they should be deported. Illegal immigrants should also be deported. It surprises me that we still allow illegals to enter the country, not to mention that by doing so the US as a whole is only penalizing those people who wait in line to legally immigrate to the US. The immigration issue has definitely affected my family (which happens to be from Colombia) as well. Family or not, on this issue I stand firm. Hispanics (legal immigrants only) should be proud to have the privilage of living in this country. Hispanics (legal immigrants only… noticing a trend here?) should at least respect and abide by the ways of the US and its flag, just like every American should. And no, I’m not saying that these people cannot display flags from their home nations in their homes or on personal items to signify heritage because, quite simply, it is important to know where one came from. Public, disrespectful, idiotic acts like flying a different nation’s flag over the US flag at a US federal building in the USA is a different matter entirely. I am first and foremost an American living in America and I’m proud of that. Anyone that isn’t glad to be here or does not respect the US and its flag should leave. My views might be “cruel” or “not politically correct,” but I have a very hard time being tolerant of stupidity.
JLG
16 Oct, 2006
SURPRISED? NO! THESE STUDENTS ARE TAUGHT BY PARENTS & TEACHERS THAT THE U.S. TOOK CALIFORNIA, ARIZONA, NEW MEXICO, TEXAS AND MORE TERRITORY FROM MEXICO BY FORCE. OK–SOME TRUTH HERE. BUT HOW MUCH EMPHASIS IS PLACED ON A COMPLETE UNDERSTANDING OF U.S. HISTORY. NOW, WITH VERTUAL OPEN BOARDERS FOR 3 GENERATIONS, THEY SEE IT AS THEIR MISSION TO RECLAIM & ESTABLISH THESE REGIONS & MORE AS MEXICAN/SPANISH-SPEAKING STATES. AND, OUR POLITICIANS & JUDGES ARE TO SELF-SERVING AND WEAK TO STOP THEM. ADIOS GOOD OLD U.S.A., AS WE KNEW IT.
JLG
16 Oct, 2006
AARON, THANK YOU FOR YOUR REASONED, CIVIL, AND EDUCATED RESPONSE.